On November 18th, 2007, Donald D. Alt, a rancher not authorized to graze livestock on a BLM allotment in Nevada known as Stockton Flat, and who was previously convicted of unlawfully grazing cattle on public lands, accosted volunteers staging on BLM property in preparation for a range forage assessment exercise. The volunteers called BLM and BLM Law Enforcement Ranger Stan Zuber responded. The ensuing discussion was recorded on video, although some audio portions were lost to wind noise. The following transcript is from the audible portions of the video.

[Begin transcript]

Alt:  Now, supposedly I have, they're camping here next to the water, and going up
against the NRS.  (wind noise) Whether I have a dispute with BLM or not it has nothing
to do with keeping cattle or wildlife away from their water.

Zuber:  OK.

Alt: They should move off away from the water.  They should not be on my property.
They should not be touching my property or screwing with it or changing it, and it's
what they're doing.  (wind noise)  ... and, uh, that, uh, I know they, uh, (wind noise)
all the forage out here (wind noise)

Zuber:  OK, and this is BLM Land?

Alt:  It's their land.

Zuber:  So, it's BLM Land?

Alt.  Yes.

Zuber:  OK, and you have no grazing authorization, is that right? (talked over by Alt)

Alt (talking over Zuber):  Not, no authorization for the year.

Zuber:  OK.

Alt:  But I own the allotment.

Zuber:  Well, but you have no authorization here.

Alt (talking over Zuber, pointing to corrals)

Zuber:  I'm not going to get into any procedural... (Alt talking over Zuber) ... however
you want to phrase it.

Alt.  OK, and that's between me and the people in the office, and none of their
(gesturing to volunteers)...

Zuber:  Well, OK, however... (interrupted by Alt)

Alt:  (gesturing to the corral system)  Everything, (wind noise), well is all my property.
(Talking over Zuber's reply) They have no business...

Zuber: Well, I'll check with the proper people in our office regarding that.  They
should have it, it should be in the file, there...

Alt (talking over Zuber): Yeah

Zuber: ...you know.  (wind noise)

(Alt looking at Zuber)

Zuber:  OK?

Alt:  (wind noise) ...that's the reason I'm standing here.

Zuber:  OK, well you say they're camping here and it doesn't look like they're camping.
There aren't any tents or ...

Alt (talking over Zuber):  Well, well (wind noise) OK?

Alt:  Uh huh. (agreement)

Zuber:  And I still don't understand, uh,  (wind noise) and for the issue of water,
nobody is being allowed to be grazing (wind noise) OK? and there shouldn't be any cattle
here.

Alt (pointing to corrals, wind noise)

Zuber:  Well, I'm - I'm telling you right now I don't see any cattle out here and
there's not supposed to be any cattle out here, right?

Alt:  Well. (pause)

Zuber (to a bystander):  Ma'am, I'm talking to him.

Zuber (to Alt):  (wind noise) ... and why would they be out here?

Alt:  (wind noise) (nodding to the cistern)  ... there's water.

Zuber:  I'm back (gesturing at the allotment, wind noise) and I don't (wind noise for
several seconds as a gust blew through).  These people, and anybody else, can come out
here on the allotment, right?

Alt:  Yep.

Zuber:  I don't see them (wind noise) or camping...

(conversation lost in wind gust)

Alt (talking over Zuber):  And driving out... (several second wind gust)  I mean (wind 
gust continues) go to the top again.  (pause)   They, uh, broke my (unintelligible) one 
time.  Now the cows do come over. They usually come to the water to water here and
they'll go in the corrals. (Nods towards Stockton Flat corrals.)  They get fed in there.
(wind noise)

Zuber:  Sounds to me like if we drain the water of this we'd be OK.  Wouldn't be any
cows coming over.

Alt:  No, no, because then they water the horses (wind gust) cows would come for water
anyway.

Zuber:  OK, well...

Alt: (talking over zuber):  Then it, then it, then...

Zuber:  That's a separate issue.

Alt:  Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Zuber:  Isn't it?  I mean, isn't it a separate issue?

Alt:  I don't know.

Zuber:  The one thing is, is uh, the cows don't belong on BLM land.  Nobody has, to
my knowledge, has any grazing authorization to the Bureau of Land Management...

Alt (talking over Zuber):  That's, that's between me and the people in the office.

Zuber:  Well, OK.  I'm one of the people in the office.  (Alt starting to talk at the
same time.  Zuber pauses.)  You can see where I'm coming from.

(wind gust)

Zuber:  I've not seen any paperwork that comes out that says anybody can put any cattle
right now on Bureau of Land Management land in this area.  Am I mistaken in that?

Alt:  Probably according to your office, yes.

Zuber:  How's that?  They issued the permit?

Alt:  Yeah.

Zuber:  You're telling me they authorized... (wind gust)

Alt:  Nope.  Nope.  They're probably not going to.

Zuber:  OK.

Alt:  (indistinguishable)

Zuber:  OK, so you're gonna, uh, go ahead and graze cattle out here without any
authorization.  Are you doing that right now - intentionally?

Alt:  (talking over Zuber):  Yes I am.

Zuber:  Now before you told me that you had cattle on private land on the other side... 

Alt:  Yep.

Zuber: ...that just happened to be coming over here... (Alt talking over Zuber)

Alt: ... I have cattle on the allotment.

Zuber:  Where are the cattle?  Where's your cattle?

Alt:  (Pointing to the corner of the allotment near Opal Ave.) Over in that corner, about
60 head of my cows.  (Pointing to the Asamera Ranch fence line)  There's a cow and a
couple of calves over there somewhere.

(Several seconds of wind gust.  In response to an inquiry from Zuber, Alt again points
out the cattle.  Conversation unintelligible.)

Zuber: OK, were you telling me something that they did (gestures to volunteers, long wind
gust.)

Alt:  I haul water... (long wind gust)

Alt:  ... the water rights...  (long, strong wind gust, fragments of conversation)

Zuber:  You do know that you do not have any grazing authorization.

Alt.  Yep.

Zuber:  And you're telling me that you have put cows out.

Alt:  Um, I have.

(wind gust.  Broken discussion about where Mr. Alt bases his cattle.)

Zuber:  ...where you keep the cows...  

Alt:  On contract.  I'm buying it.

Zuber:  Mmm.  OK.  I understand that.  However you do understand that you have no grazing
authorization at this time right here.

Alt:  Yep.

Zuber:  And you're going to graze regardless.

Alt:  That's right.

Zuber:  OK.  That's important for me to know.

Alt:  Uh Huh.  'Cause I have to stay in possession.

Zuber:  Mmm?

Alt:  I have to stay in possession.

Zuber:  OK, well, I mean that's (Alt talking over Zuber) regulations...

Alt:  It's just, it's just a point of law.

Zuber:  OK, so, basically what we've come down here to do is I ask or tell these people
that, um, basically don't mess with the grazing and range improvements here.  As far as
standing around the water, you know, I'm not gonna - you know, we don't have a
regulation... (Alt talking over Zuber.)

(wind noise)

Zuber:  ... I totally understand.  These other people are free to come out here on BLM
land, study the plants, take pictures of your cows and anything like that, and you don't
have any problem with that.

Alt: (shakes head) Nothing wrong with that.

(wind chop, unintelligible conversation.)

Zuber:  Pleased to meet you Mr. Alt.  I've heard your name in the office but I've never
met you before.

Off camera volunteer:  May I ask one question?

(pause)

Off camera volunteer:  May I ask one question?

Zuber:  To who?

Off camera volunteer:  To you or to him.

Zuber:  Well, (gesturing to Alt) whether or not you can ask him a question would be up
to him. I have to go over here (gesturing to volunteers) and we'll do some discussing.

Off camera volunteer:  Well, no, what I want to ask is, is he accusing us of doing
anything?  Have you got any proof or anything that we have touched your property?

Alt:  (facing away, unintelligible response.)

Off camera volunteer:  Did we take it.  Did you see us?  Of course you didn't.  Why are
you blaming us?

Zuber:  OK, now.

Off camera volunteer:  That's what I'd like him to admit to.  Get his accusations on my
recorder.

Alt:  Every time I come out...  (points to and faces corrals, unintelligible)  ... gate's
open ... Every time I come out something new's happening.  Every time I come out  (wind
noise)  ...happened in the  last 30 days probably (wind noise)

Zuber:  You've had grazing rights, probably, for a long time - not necessarily grazing
rights but you've grazed and worked Nevada for a long time I suppose.

(Alt talking over Zuber)

Zuber:  Right.  And you know that grazing improvements get vandalized a lot, I mean I get
a lot of reports on it. 

Alt: (talking over Zuber) Oh, yeah.

Zuber: ... just in my area, not counting any other areas... (Alt talking over Zuber)

Alt:  All the gates and everything around here, nothing's, there's never been any
vandalism  (wind noise) have calves in there.  The, the only, the only time that's
happened's been in the last 30 days are the volunteers (shrugs) and I don't...
(unintelligible)

Zuber:  And I bet there's a lot more off road vehicles going along out through here, too.
(several seconds of conversation lost to wind gust)

Alt:  Really, you don't have any real authority.

Zuber:  Well, that's your opinion, uh, several courts have had other decisions and
decided differently, and that's where we're going to disagree. OK?

(wind noise)

Zuber:  That's a whole other issue, a whole entirely other issue and, uh, we're not going
to resolve that here, are we?  OK?

Alt:  (laughs)

Zuber: OK.  I'm going to talk to the others and see if we can't get something figured out
out here and see what's going on (wind noise)  OK?  See you Mr. Alt.

[End of recording]